AYESHA RASCOE, HOST:
Waymo's self-driving cars seem to be going their own way lately. Some of them have been seen abruptly shifting lanes, taking illegal U-turns and making risky maneuvers to get passengers where they're going. It's all because of a change in programming to make the vehicles confidently assertive, according to the company. Katherine Bindley is a tech reporter for the Wall Street Journal. She's written about the changes in how Waymo has been operating, and she joins us now. Welcome to the program.
KATHERINE BINDLEY: Thank you for having me.
RASCOE: So first off, can you tell us, like, a bit about Waymo? What did their cars used to drive like until recently?
BINDLEY: Early on, they were just so - deferential is really, like, the word that comes to mind, or polite. An example I like to give people to help illustrate this is, you know, you arrive at a four-way stop, and it's a tie. And, you know, it's kind of usually, like, whoever the more assertive driver is goes. People obviously - you know, they don't always default to the car on the right going. And Waymos were, like, a surefire - they will always let you go.
RASCOE: But it sounds like these self-driving cars have started acting more human and, you know, impatient, and get me around here (laughter). Like, how have people described their recent experiences in Waymos?
BINDLEY: Yeah. They're more confident, and they are absolutely driving - or some of them, at least - are driving more the way that a human would. So if you come to a stop these days with a Waymo in San Francisco, if the Waymo beats you, the Waymo is going to go or is more likely to go than it previously would have. They've been observed not signaling before changing lanes.
What else? Let's see. Oh, well, there was this illegal U-turn down in San Bruno. I spoke with a police sergeant who was out on patrol one night. And they were looking for drunk drivers, and a Waymo pulled a U-turn, and they looked up, and there was a no U-turn sign. So they pulled the Waymo over, which obviously is just kind of humorous in and of itself. There's no person, but the window rolled down. And then, you know, an operator apparently came on the speaker and, you know, apologized profusely and said that they were going to look into it.
RASCOE: Well, I mean, that is interesting, though, 'cause the police can't really give a ticket to a driverless car, right?
BINDLEY: In California, they cannot, but that law is set to change. So apparently they will, in the future, be able to ticket driverless cars.
RASCOE: So you reached out to Waymo. What did they have to say about this change in their cars' behavior?
BINDLEY: You know, they were clear that Waymos are designed to respect the rules of the road. There's no intentional, you know, make the Waymos bend rules or anything like that. But they have intentionally made the Waymos - as they put it - more confidently assertive. And I spoke with a senior director of product management over there, and he explained that if the cars are too passive, that actually can be disruptive to traffic.
RASCOE: Well, how does Waymo's safety record overall compare to human drivers?
BINDLEY: According to the company, compared with human drivers, Waymos have had 91% fewer crashes involving a serious injury or worse. So they have, you know, according to them, a strong safety record. And, you know, I think it's fair to consider how people drive and especially in the age of distraction. I mean, I've lost count of the number of times I'm behind someone, and I can see that their eyes are down on their phone, or you pull up next to someone, and you can see that they're texting and not paying any attention. You know, some people have told me that they prefer a Waymo because they're not worried that the Waymo is going to be distracted. So it makes sense that people would feel quite comfortable with them in some senses.
RASCOE: That's Katherine Bindley of the Wall Street Journal. Thank you so much for speaking with us.
BINDLEY: Thank you so much. I really appreciate your interest in the story and having me on.
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